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to steam we give our blind allegiance.

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  • to steam we give our blind allegiance.

    so on another site they ran an article on what steam needs to improve in 2018, neglecting the most important thing they need to improve competitive pricing. I found it quite comical someone jumped straight to the defence of steam using the argument "the developers/publishers set the price" as if this is a rule that only applies to Valve for steam, totally ignoring the fact most other first party store fronts also need to get their keys from the publisher/developer, but can still in some cases charge under half the price steam is for the same game.

    it just amazes me that people jump on the defence of steam so much when they are a firm designed to purely take advantage of the people who don't price check. a great example of this is they are billions, I was looking at it, (I also bought it) I could get a steam key for £17.09 from humble store linked direct from the developers site and that gets me a steam key, now if I go to steam and buy the game direct from steam that brags a 10% discount I can pay £17.54, that's an extra 45p for the privilege of not having to enter a CD key into the steam client. now following the logic above are we to believe that the developer told steam they had to sell at 3% higher than the developer site, or should we see the truth that valve is doing what they always have and just trying to take a larger profit.

    I honestly do see how anyone with any internet search ability can still defend steam on their overpriced sales model that serves no purpose other than to help developers and publishers inflate the price games so we all end up having to pay more.

  • #2
    Blind allegiance to any company is moronic, they all exist to make as much profit as possible.
    That said, I will admit to voluntarily paying more for some items than others because of good customer service/wishing product to succeed (for example I collect comics, and am certain that I could buy them cheaper online from companies like Amazon (spit), but find the knowledge and customer service provided by the shop I buy comics from provides additional benefits not provided by Amazon. Plus they pay tax which helps keep public services running.
    That said, I am in a position where I can afford to pay that bit extra (although, comics being a luxury, if you are struggling that much you probably shouldn't be buying them anyway. I certainly have large gaps in my collection from when I deemed it unjustifiable).
    I also bought Fallout VR just after launch (and not following my general "wait till the sale" stance) because I have a vested interest in more VR products. (Still shopped around for the best deal though!)
    Sure, no-one likes to be taken for a ride, but that theory also extends to people making the games, they are not doing it for the good of their health!


    • #3
      There is nothing wrong with supporting a product as long as you target your money wisely, in this case if we are taking they are billions as the product in question and it is well known valve takes the largest cut of any store front, the cheaper version on humble will most likely offer more money and support to the developers than the more expensive version that just lines the pockets of the middle man more at the cost of the developers and the end user.

      As for the likes of a small "hobby" shop I do agree if they provide a truly unique and excellent service they should be supported, but my experience with these types of shop if you go in asking advice because you want to take up something new (I get bored of things a lot) most will have a tendency to direct you to the big profit items and not they type of thing you would want to start out. Don't get me wrong I have found a couple of stores where if I had stuck with it I would have happily paid the bit extra to support the small store as they did actually help and care, but it seems shops like that are few and far between.

      It's why mostly I'll stick to Google and big stores like Amazon, but then I am looking at going to try to learn archery properly in the spring/summer as it's something I've messed with but always wanted to learn, so never know I may find a good small store that isn't the internet.


      • #4
        Surely we are giving blind allegiance to many many companies by not reading the tos/eula when signing up for services?

        I am/was of the view that most companies will handle this responsibly but who's to say?

        edit: to answer the original point, i agree that steam games are overpriced but i see it more as lip service to big developers who want to see their games represented as close to rrp as possible. The only problem is where you get countries where this is the only option (i assume that happens, or if the whole game market is ridiculously expensive). I normally buy steam games elsewhere.
        Last edited by Alm; 30-12-17, 06:15.


        • #5
          Tos/EULA are different, people claim they could put something stupid in and you would be forced to do it, but the truth is it's nothing more than the house rules, they can't force anything on you that doesn't relate to their service. It's why with stuff like loans they have to go through all the small print with you as they can legally affect you or cause you to lose something.

          Tos/EULA is basically a sign in a bar saying "no shirt, no shoes, no service" as the only thing they can ever take from you is the service.


          • #6
            some folks dont mind paying for convenience and ease of access.
            its why convenience stores in the US are so popular (7/11 types)

            that being said....if i find a game on steam i want....ill go check prices elsewhere...if i cannot find a price i like (im a cheap basterd and wont pay more then 30 for a new AAA game) i will put it on wishlist and wait for sale.
            usually if its on sale on steam someone else has it on sale too....
            if i REALLY want to play something and cant find a price im comfortable with i will find a "demo" and play that until. such time as the price comes down to what im willing to pay.

            @Bel as for archery..check for local ranges indoor or outdoor and you will find someone who can help with gear and/or training.
            bow hunting is a blast if that is allowed over there.


            • #7
              there is a range about a 5 minuet drive from me, there aren't really a great deal of them here, as for bow hunting, it's illegal in Europe, can get a gun and go shoot stuff, but you can't use a bow.

              just to go back on Jack saying about wanting VR to succeed in my news feed today two nearly identical articles came up "20__ the year VR stopped being a gimmick" the difference being one said 17 and one said 18, this is the problem with VR, it is struggling because many people like me see it as low quality and expensive, also not wanting to strap a brick to their face. it's why developers are dropping support for VR games and some VR exclusives are being opened to any system and not just VR. it is always going to be a niche market, the problem is the activists who love it will never accept that not everyone loves what they do, so they try to force their opinion as fact rather than looking into actual sales and user counts.


              • #8
                I do like Steam, I don't necessarily think I am getting a good deal, but they think they're offering me an amazing deal and so I end up buying it regardless the majority of the time, mainly because I would have bought the game anyway. I remember when Steam was oppressed upon people regardless of whether they wanted it or not, you buy Half Life then steam is a vital necessity. The alternatives are so few and between that it doesn't seem worth the effort to go and look if I can get a game £2 cheaper elsewhere. Unless people on this site and so forth mention that there is a deal of course.

                I only truly go searching for a good deal if it's a AAA game or whatever the fuck people call games that have 10 hours of gameplay and flashy graphics.


                • #9
                  The main stumbling block on VR is the entry price, but thirty years ago games themselves cost a lot more than they do now (especially if you adjust for inflation) and no-one would have predicted the industry would ever become more profitable than movies, yet because people like all of us on this site (probably) spent our pocket money on the likes of Arkanoid, Elite (oh how the more things change the more they stay the same), R-Type, Sim city (who ever would have thought an idea as dull as town planing would become an entire gaming genre?) Turrican, Starglider etc, etc, instead of football and sweets the hobby slowly took over as something done by everyone (even GIRLS!)
                  Most people simply cannot justify spending a few hundred quid on a toy, but as the price comes down and the technology improves that will probably change. By your own admission, you tried a lower end VR system and then wrote off the entire idea as a gimmick.
                  Which would be the equivalent of someone having a go on a CD-I and then denouncing the console market.
                  At the minute developers are playing around with what VR can do, but a lot of them do struggle to get past generic videogame thinking, simply rehashing generic videogame concepts that we have all done to death a thousand time over.
                  It's not necessarily an indication of pointlessness, much like FMV initially suffered from a lack if imagination in it's inclusion in gaming, it's going to take a while for the idea's to come to the fore, and for VR to succeed it is going to have to provide something that cannot be done with standard gaming (such as
                  More developers are picking up VR support, and for every game that drops it (erm, nope not aware of any) there will be another that picks it up (Superhot, Bethesda, The vanishing of Ethan Carter etc, etc, etc)
                  Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is niche, and almost certainly will be for a good few years yet.
                  But then you are Northern, you are bound to be a Luddite!


                  • #10
                    Star Trek bridge crew and Eve Valkyrie both dropped VR exclusive and that's just 2 off the top of my head.

                    As for trying an inferior version since then I have tried a friend's Vive and I still stand by the phones have better screen quality, visually and by numbers. Still nothing to make me think I actually need or even want one.


                    • #11
                      Dropping VR exclusivity doesn't equal dropping VR.
                      Or in your world does Bethesda converting Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Doom to VR herald the end of traditional gaming?
                      And that YOU don't need or want it doesn't mean that lots of other people might not.
                      What was it you were saying about "not everyone loves what they do"


                      • #12
                        But history tells us 3D always failed because people didn't want to wear glasses, so considering how much worse a VR headset is compared to glasses it says it is unlikely to take off in any big way.

                        But those 2 games are big examples as on both the developers said they couldn't do the game without VR so it shows a massive change in opinion.


                        • #13
                          "They" also told us that computers would never need more than 64K and gaming would never be anything but a consolation prize for neckbeard virgins who couldn't get a girlfriend.


                          • #14
                            There was no history to say otherwise with computers tho, but VR/3D are something that has come and gone for decades ultimately failing for the same reason every time.


                            • #15
                              i have to assume that amazon uk has different prices then in the us.
                              i have yet to find a game i want on steam at a better price on amazon us.
                              key re-sellers are hit or miss in most cases concerning newer games.

                              and then there are those games i really like that are only sold via steam and/or the publisher.