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  • #46
    but the NHS sucks and needs a kick up the arse, not sure privatisation is the solution but something needs to be done with certain hospitals where they treat their patients like shit.

    as for privatisation in an industry where you can provide choice it's the best solution as then you usually have firms competing to outdo each other, but then you have other markets such as the fuel markets where someone should really be shot for price fixing as there is little to no competition and the firms all stick within a reasonable amount of each other. but then as someone stupid enough to use premium fuel for my car who am I to say anything. (even if I do get more miles per £ on the Shell premium than anything else)

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    • #47
      Heheh like it's stimulated you JR. and I TOTALLY meant it in that way....

      you mistake my definition of privatisation. Though, as I have a completely different definition of privatisation (in this context) to everyone else, that's understandable.

      Also, for the whole 'private sector doesn't care about H+S' thing, you've clearly not worked in that sector...... (hides).... the private sector is anal over H+S, like massively so. Far easier to sue private sector than public.

      back to the horrendous fire (which I'm really struggling reading the reports of, having kids screws you guys. Was nearly in tears reading about how a dad threw his 6 yo out of a fourth story window to people below to save him. My sons 6. Hurt that did), Theresa mays handling of it has been abject, shameful and cowardly. Corbyn's been milking it- on purpose, for sure, but May- shit. She needs to go.

      Have to say, recent form of the tories makes me regret my vote.

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      • #48
        that public sector and health and safety thing is a joke, between agency and "real" jobs I've worked in a lot of jobs in a lot of roles and health and safety is always put behind the profitt. it's like as you know I recently did class 2 and got fully trained for hiab, now class 2 training would tell you every item on the wagon has to be strapped, in the real world the time you are given if you want to keep your job (altho I'm tempted to try to get the sack as I wouldnt have to pay the company back for my licence and training and I could get much more going in somewhere as a driver) you pretty much have no time to strap anything down other than things that absolutely must be strapped because no matter how well you drive they will come off. (eg stuff stacked on top of other stuff) the same as VOSA and training on hiab says you should strap the crane down while driving but again if you actually did that you would likely lose your job. so health and safety is very much on the back burner also when I've had to actively refuse to drive before they would fix faults on the truck.

        look at a fork lift in any company and you will see again the massive neglect for health and safety and training.

        the public sector is actually a easier target for legal claims, they will spend less as they have less to spend on protecting their profit, it's why when I worked for the council I got told if you were strimming or something and broke a car window go away from it and deny ever being near it, because they knew if they went to court they would lose more than they could afford to pay, most private firms have acceptable losses, there is a massive ASDA and george warehouse near me they both are covered for £10k losses a day, private firms works on acceptable losses, they will try to push stuff if the price of the accident is too high, but in 90% of cases they would pay the fine compensation to get more work out as it becomes an acceptable loss. it's like my firm driving a truck you can hit cars and take a load of wing mirrors delivering but they will never discipline you for it, as it is cheaper to pay to repair a few cars than turn away orders because it's hard to get into a street.

        so yeah saying the private sector is more liable is a joke, the worst place I've ever worked for having to follow health and safety is the council, I had to fill in 5 form just to take out a grass cutter, between machine checks, vibration white finger, risk assessments and other stuff it was actually more time spent on paper work than actually cutting.

        in contrast I can now take out a 18ton truck with a crane, it takes maybe 2-3 minutes to perform the checks (12 minuets to have a coffee since VOSA says it has to take 10-15 minutes on tacho) then you just go out on the road you get to a drop you pull up you don't have to do any recorded checks just stick out your legs and chuck the load off and then back to the yard for more, now what I'm doing now is a lot more dangerous but as it is in the private sector unless it is an actual law I am forced to follow (such as driving hours and breaks) then it is totally ignored, they will even try to overload the trucks, the only advantage at the moment is firms are desperate for class 2 drivers, throw hiab on top and you are even more needed so you can have the right to tell your bosses to fuck off as they know you can walk into a job pretty much the next day. (it's the reason I had to sign into a 2 year contract stopping me leaving without paying back my training, unless I can get them to finish me then the contract breaks)

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        • #49
          Whereas my experience of the private sector has you at risk of instant dismissal if you contravene any H+S regulations. The image of 'profit before everything' as a culture doesn't really exist now. It's out dated and actually shown to lower profits. Health and happy staff overperform. The inverse also applies.

          Id put forward that only the most backward or private companies hold to that model. I'd also put forward that they won't be around much longer.

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          • #50
            One of my company's mottos is "We'd rather lose money than put you in an unsafe situation". They urge staff to speak up if they are put in unsafe situations.

            And I think the integrity of the company attracts the larger clients.

            OT: I must admit I bought into the hype and voted Conservative.

            This whole JC thing is making me question my political standpoint. Maybe nice guys are ineffective.

            I used to be a bit of a pacifist and I'm thinking maybe now it was foolish.

            EDIT: Lol, that makes me sound a bit Britain First... I mean more in justice terms than vigilante terms.
            Last edited by Alm; 19-06-17, 19:20.

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            • #51
              I work for a fairly large Irish company (they do pretty much everything you could want for doing a building) the health and safety is a joke, vehichle repairs come down to functional (and tape/silicone) the only time a health and safety notice comes out is when someone does something stupid like climb about the back of a wagon with the crane remote switched on leading to them planting them self into the side of the truck with the crane. but even then it is just something that gets put on a board and normally laughed at as it is normally user error.

              but as I've said go anywhere with forklifts and the actual rules and health and safety is out the window before someone even gets on the forklift, go to a local council (not the private firms who do some areas) and even taking something out as simple as a strimmer is more paperwork and safety checks than is ever needed. (they made me wear a hivis while I drove a ride on grass cutter as the people in the park might not see the grasscutter and it's flashing lights but the hivis would warn them) hell for everywhere we cut we had to have maps that someone had made measuring the gradient on even the smallest of bumps to tell us what grass cutter we were allowed to use under council rules. again that leads back into delivering with a truck, it's a very small gradient you can actually deliver on but if anyone followed those rules nothing would ever get done and you would be out of a job fairly quick for failing to complete your job.

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              • #52
                And BP polluted the entire Caribbean because the American contractor they used wanted to save a few bucks on a safety valve.
                In fairness, blanketly targeting the entire private sector over the actions of some (very high profile) companies and using that to denounce the entire sector as corrupt bond villians is as retarded as pointing to single failing hospitals and claiming that they prove that socialised healthcare is doomed to fail.
                Spats is a scientist (as I recall), and I dare say his company cares more about him that the sorts of low pay high turnover outlets like Tesco and McDonalds that I had to endure before I got myself trained up.
                And I'm pretty certain that if I went into the private sector now, the company I worked for would care a damn sight more for my welfare than it would for the poor schmuck cleaning my equipment (without paying the slightest attention to the fact that if my tools are not clean, my patient can contract potentially life threatening infections).
                That said, I do know some private workers in my field, and they don't pay an all too rosy picture of what is expected (whilst others positively glow about it).
                My experience of working in the private sector wasn't so much being threatened with the sack for ignoring health and safety, but being threatened with the sack for refusing to ignore them. Incidentally my sister went to work for the same company after I left, doing the same job, and ended up with third degree burns because she lacked the confidence to tell them to go fuck themselves when they demanded she do the illegal act that I told them to go fuck themselves for.

                As for Jeremy Corbyn. He actually has something in common with Trump. And indeed Corbyn is the most maligned politician by the press in the western world.
                Even so called "leftist" outlets misrepresented him and tried to remove him for what they see as a more appealing prospect
                And even with that, he managed to overturn a 20 point lead into a loss (and yes, in the last election, EVERYBODY lost, but some lost far more than others!)

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                • #53
                  The reason I wanted to vote for him initially was to see if his type of politics could work, but I chickened out.

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                  • #54
                    His type of politics has been reasonably successful in Germany and Sweden.
                    Whether it could work here? I'm not sure.
                    Personally, I think that we are becoming an increasingly inconsiderate society, only it's not being driven by the "millennials" as both the social, and mainstream, media would have you believe, in my experience, its the most selfish and entitled generation that ever existed that are inflaming most of our problems, the baby boomers.

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                    • #55
                      Do you reckon there will be another general election this year or when do you people reckon it will happen?
                      Last edited by Boa; 23-06-17, 04:27.

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                      • #56
                        Depends on if May gets her Queens speech passed next week.
                        If she doesn't, another general election this year is certain.
                        The most important political action this country has been involved in since the end of the second war, (Brexit) and May wasted the first two months of it on a pointless general election that critically undermined her authority, and may well lead to another four months of uncertainty!
                        Way to go May.

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                        • #57
                          someone brought a brexit cream egg into work it was about the size of a finger nail.

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                          • #58
                            What. The actual. Fuck.

                            Ok, can I take my vote back yet please?

                            the DUP. The fucking DUP. 1.5 billion pounds. BILLION pounds.

                            oh my dear god, I've never regretted a vote so much as I do now. Not that I think labour were credible, or Corbyn is competent (he's a thoroughly good guy, but that's different). But fuck me.

                            May has turned into a fucking car crash. Bribing the DUP to take power is just unbelievably sickening. I'm fuming, literally fuming.

                            we don't have money for the NHS, armed forces, police etc etc, but we can bung a bunch of racist, anti-science, fucktards 1.5 fucking billion pounds to cling onto her slim sliver of power??

                            the E.U. Must be laughing their collective cocks off.

                            aaaaarrrrrrfggggghghdhfneribxiebeiehrgiheifeoidtsf hhhhhhh

                            ahem.

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                            • #59
                              And only a month ago she was warning of the dangers of a magic money tree and the dangers of associating with Irish terrorists!

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                              • #60
                                so what you doing with the 1.5 billion jack?

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