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  • Vile vile gamers- for-shame....

    So, sorry in advance Burg... You're SO going to have to re-format this....

    Oh god where to begin. So, apparently the gaming media are a bunch of..... Anyway,.... Some children made some fairly vicious threats (including one bomb threat on someone's home) on some journalists trying to highlight inherent sexism with in video games. Gaming journalists rapidly closed ranks and attempted to combat the issue and then within, what, 2 days?? Managed to lose the moral high ground. Internet anonymity breeds trolls. Couple that with the inherent nature of young people, you get nasty comments with no repercussions. And it's this zero repercussions that are the issue.

    Unfortunately, the gaming media decided to go nuclear, 'outing' the trolls and attacking them with a fairly vitriolic fever. What's worse, they decided that the issue wasn't just a commonly recognised psychological reaction of younger mentalities in unrestrained mediums, but that all gamers are sick.

    I'm thinking in particular about Leigh Alexander's recent kotako post: someone I've usually got a lot of time for. For some reason, that baffles me, she decides that gaming as a whole is struggling (apparently she thinks sales are down), she compares gamers to question of unwashed, socially inept men (instantly insulting the multitude of female and 'normal' male gamers) and basically attacks the whole 'gamer' identity.

    She makes so so many logical assumptions that don't even stand up to basic scrutiny that I actually got a headache reading her post. And she's not the only one. Over the last few years I've been getting the distinct impression that most gaming journalists think that they're too good for our hobby. Most articles I read now give me the impression that I'm not being informed, or brought into someone's experience, but instead that I'm being talked down to, condescended even.

    The sorry thing is that they are right, the behaviour they are rallying against is completely unacceptable and should be challenged. However, in their response all they have achieved is to become comparable to those they seem to wish to marginalise. Or to put it another way, they are spectacularly missing the fucking point by spending far too much time getting up on their high horses.

    Is it just me? Am I just getting old, or are most of the mainstream games journalists more interested in sounding clever than actually doing their fucking jobs? /rant
    Last edited by Belimawr; 30-08-14, 21:38. Reason: Spats is too lazy to click to load desktop site :p

  • #2
    Most gaming journalism now is nothing more than people trying to get clicks and paid by publishers to advertise shitty game 23.

    I think the problem is more the generation of people who are now in the field, the old schools trolls are getting to an age where they can go into these types of jobs, so basically all they are doing is getting in people who know nothing better than trolling and flame baiting.

    Look at the likes of IGN during the run up to the new consoles, they made statements saying people having arguments and calling each other would be banned, then they posted at least 3-4 articles a day designed to insight the very thing they said they didn't want, what was the reason for this? the reason was the more clicks they could get by people coming back to argue and insult each other the more money they got from click revenue.

    The more recent example being the Sim City bigger maps, every news site reported with the headline "Modder's do what Maxis couldn't" while this is a blatant lie, Maxis never said they couldn't make the maps bigger they said it cause performance and other issues, now what does the mod do? it causes performance issues and has loads of problems with the agents system, now where is the Modder doing what Maxis hasn't? to anyone with half a brain cell you would see that the statement Maxis made is a perfect description of the state of the mod, but reporting that wouldn't get them the same clicks as jumping on the EA hate train.

    The simple rule is the trolls are running gaming journalism and that is the reason it is going to shit, because all these firms care about is their income and not actually being informative.


    • #3
      Indeed. Whilst it does not excuse the vile behaviour of some internet trolls, and I don't think their age excuses them, the "white knight" mentality of so many gaming sites now which just lumps any sort of criticism as "sexist/mysogynist" and fails to even consider that maybe, just maybe, some actual criticism has merit.

      This act that gaming critics are being abused BECAUSE of their gender (as opposed to what they say and the manner in which they say it) is simply not true. Ten years ago, before the internet was as prevalent as it is now, Jack Thompson was the victim of the same sort of abuse as Anita Sarkesian/Zoe Quinn etc, even going so far as to have his likeness put into a Mortal Kombat game, did the gaming press defend him? No it went out of its way to ridicule and vilify him in any way possible. Peter Molyneux gets the most terrible sort of abuse after yet another of his games do not live up to the promises he makes, does anyone claim that he is getting the abuse BECAUSE he is a man?
      Don't get me wrong, there are almost certainly some retarded fuckwits with an outdated notion of societal position, but to simply blanketly paint every critic with the same brush is disingenuous. George Bush was vilified for his "you are either with us, or with the terrorist" speech, why does the gaming press escape the same criticism?
      Remember the Tomb Raider "rape" controversy? Which dissapeared overnight when it turned out the game was written by Rhianna Pratchett? No changes were made to the scene, but it immediately went from a male power fantasy to a story of strong female empowerment simply based on who wrote it (Sexist!)

      I got into an argument on another forum (sorry Belimawr) because a challenge was set to name the last ten games you had played, and add up the ones which let you play as a female as opposed to male character. Because my list actually had more games that involved a female protagonist than male, I was simply accused of lying! (In fairness, the list had more games where you could choose, but of the games where you were restricted to one gender, I had three games with women, and one game with a man!)
      One thing I have been thinking of recently is whether or not the problem is actually that the gaming press is too male oriented. Maybe a lot of these journalist don't actually meet such a large variety of women (gaming being a predominantly male industry. Which I think is due to the choices that is made when people are choosing any career rather than the industry acting against women) and as such still have the outdated notion of women as somewhat weaker and in need of protection (an attitude in itself inherantly sexist).
      I work in a female dominated industry, I grew up in a household with 3 sisters.
      Anyone who thinks that a woman needs protection simply because she is a woman is a fucking moron.
      Do you have a link to this Leigh Alexander piece?


      • #4
        The gaming industry and gaming media are shite now. Belimawr's right when he says it's all about click revenue. The gaming media has turned into the Daily Mail, writing inflammatory articles for website traffic. The professional gaming media is more interested in being wined and dined by developers than writing any real review of a game. A generic AAA game that's the same as every other generic AAA game (like any of the last CoD's) will get 95% because the developers/publishers gave the media plenty of free copies and gift baskets at launch parties and shit.

        Fuck it all, dude. Fuck this ridiculous sexism debate - just treat people the same, doesn't matter what they've got between their legs. Simple as that. If something is offensive then it's offensive whether a man or a woman wrote it - nobody gets a pass because of their gender.


        • #5
          Found it.

          So Daniel, how do you rationalise this with your view of feminism?
          I got to the third paragraph before realising if a man wrote this about a predominantly female interest, he would be drubbed out of that industry.


          • #6
            to be honest the whole thing with that woman being chased from her house, there is actually a lot of things with it that look fishy and make it look like nothing more than a play a to get more attention, some sites have even disabled comments due to it being called out on it. the sad fact is if this had supposedly happened to a bloke no one would have gave a shit, but you've got to love those equal rights.


            • #7
              Yeah, and it gets worse. Now Yahoo are on the case



              • #8
                Weber points to research that shows online taunting, popular in "Call of Duty," ''Halo," and other shoot-'em-up games, may come from bullies who enjoy the online anonymity while seeking to reduce their own anxiety and feelings of inadequacy. She said such abuse is no different whether it occurs on the playground or the virtual battlefield.
                but shooters have had that type of community since the 90's it's not something new and it was never really anything serious, it's no different to people in sports trying to psyche out each other before/during a match. so really if they are looking into taunting and insults in "gaming" the need to expand it to all gaming. (including sports)

                but then there are just as many trolls on twitter and facebook so guess they should also be examining social networks, there is also loads of people on the street willing to throw threats about if they disagree with something, so I guess they should also investigate real life, but as I said before why point out this is happening in every aspect of life when you can target an area that will get you the most clicks/readers.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JackRabbit View Post
                  Found it.

                  So Daniel, how do you rationalise this with your view of feminism?
                  I got to the third paragraph before realizing if a man wrote this about a predominantly female interest, he would be drubbed out of that industry.
                  I feel on the sidelines on this. I have no qualms with the likes of Anita making these videos. Or people sanely criticizing them. I am pro criticizing and analyzing culture/society in general. There is a problem that these people receive so much shit for daring to voice their opinions though. Even if you don't agree with them there is a definite problem here. These self described feminists are perfectly entitled to do so without receiving all this abuse ( I am aware this is in no way unique to feminists), this makes me sympathize with their 'side' even if i don't agree with it in its entirety. I also do not support the automatic dismal of 'politically incorrect' arguments made by people like yourself who attack their ideas in non abusive and rational way. But then that is something that is very much entrenched in the left in general, 'if you don't think like me you are evil and therefore your arguments are invalid'. I can still identify as left wing and abhor this at the same time. Well the same goes for feminism.

                  The above sums up my views with whatever that makes me with regards to being a feminists or not. I don't really care. It's what you do that matters, not what labels you apply to yourself. I don't really follow this stuff closely anyway.

                  With regards to the rape stuff in Tomb Raider (not played it myself) being ok the moment it came to light a women had written it... Well I can remember listening to Crate and Crowbar podcast where the pod casters were complaining about the fighting game with only female fighters as being creepy with being able to see their underwear etc. Once of the criticisms was that it wasn't made any better just because the designer/artists was female. So there you go, some of these annoying feminists (they may identify as feminists, I dunno) in the industry agree with you.
                  Last edited by Daniel; 31-08-14, 15:39.


                  • #10
                    I don't think the issue is anyone making a piece or video about something they believe in. But, expecting there not to be a backlash, especially when you're making points on something that is naive. The extent of the backlash was obviously disgusting. But as has been pointed out above- more and worse have happened to others and not been reported as widely. The issue isn't sexism, or whatever else you want to raise- it's the effect of having anonymity, which breeds lack of repercussions, especially in younger people. This happens in EVERY FIELD OF INTEREST EVER, THROUGHOUT BLOODY HISTORY. Why the current crop of gaming journalists think it's an endemic issue restricted solely to gamers is beyond me. They're clearly not as smart as they think they are. It's really ground my gears this. That Leigh Alexander piece is disgusting; a frustrated writers spleen vent, it's no thought of repercussions or how accurate anything she says was. I suppose it's annoyed me more as I used to respect her as a writer- she's generally clever, insightful and witty. This piece though, grrrr. As for the rest of the field, complaining and abusing the very people who pay your wages seems, deliciously ironic.


                    • #11
                      As for the underlying cause- even if they spend the next 2 years converting ever 'troll' (if such a thing were even possible), the next lot will then be old enough to join in and it'll begin all over again. To say they're on a fools errand is an understatement. This is not to condone, or excuse this trolling behaviour, just to say that you need to come at it from a different angle. I'llsay one thing though, me when it comes to children and young adults, loosing your rag with them and resulting to petty name calling means you've already lost and will only make issues worse.


                      • #12
                        Well I do think "gaming" has a problem with vile abuse (Mass Effect Kicks the ball wide of the goal....RAGE, Red Dead Redemption doesn't get a PC release...RAGE, Rage wasn't that good...RAGE),
                        But what annoys me is this attempt to paint it as specifically a mysogyny thing, when its a lack of control, or thought or wording thing (which I think everyone would hold their hand up and admit to if they were honest. Hell even the ever rational emotionless android Evil Plum has been observed kicking a bit of a hissy fit once in a purple moon (even rarer than a blue moon).
                        As I said above, there are some vile mysogynists out there, like there are some vile misandrists. But most of those types of people are the knuckle dragging morons howling at the moon who you wouldn't give a second thought to when you see them in the street. But stick them behind a keyboard and they are suddenly evidence of a widespread and overmhelming mysogynistic culture.

                        We have no idea whether the howler is an 8 year old boy who still thinks that girls smell, or a 39 year old woman who thinks that all men are potential rapists, all you hear is the howl. However they are all being treated as if they are all young men.

                        As for Leigh Alexander, maybe she has realised that the fastest way for the industry to take notice of her is not to slowly build up a credible body of excellently written and inciteful pieces, like the many MANY unsung women making their way in the world, but instead has decided to cause a bit of controversy and get people to call her nasty names.
                        Last edited by JackRabbit; 31-08-14, 16:35.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JackRabbit View Post
                          As for Leigh Alexander, maybe she has realised that the fastest way for the industry to take notice of her is not to slowly build up a credible body of excellently written and inciteful pieces, like the many MANY unsung women making their way in the world, but instead has decided to cause a bit of controversy and get people to call her nasty names.
                          well the Anita Sarkeesian one is just a joke, the account that supposedly did the really nasty stuff only ever existed for about 20 minutes, so basically it was gone before anyone could look into it and what it was linked to, but really the more you look into it the more it ends up looking staged, sure there are some people actively insulting, but then if most men took their opinions else where they would insulted just as bad, but no one would report on it because it's a bloke. the biggest problem seems to be a lot of male journalists want to come off as the white hat who saved the day, this is why if the tables were turned they wouldn't care because sticking up for a man wouldn't help their image with women, if anything the people feeling the need to defend these women are the biggest misogynists going as they are basically doing nothing other than stating the woman needs more protection because they are a woman and under the beliefe that protecting the women will help them get in other womens pants.


                          • #14
                            George Galloway had his jaw broken the other day. Clearly he was attacked because he was a man.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JackRabbit View Post
                              George Galloway had his jaw broken the other day. Clearly he was attacked because he was a man.
                              thats real violence it's much less important than insults over the internet.