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  • #46
    OK, this seems to be a reasonably balanced article on the whole #gamersgate thing. I didn’t write it, but do agree with it. Reproduced to remove the rather excessive clicking required to get all of it, but feel free to visit the page itself
    Articles everywhere have sprung up overnight claiming that ‘gamers are dead’, or ‘gamers are killing gamers’. Chances are you’ve seen one of these articles with whatever sensationalist title they’ve used to draw you in, but why are people saying this? What does #GamerGate mean?
    Well, to put it simply, the general gaming public are concerned with the quality and integrity of video game journalism. Much evidence has surfaced over the past few weeks that exposes many gaming journalists have personal ties with the people they sponsor and write about. Type in #gamergate on any social media site (Twitter and Tumblr being the most bountiful) to be flourished with a wave of evidence supporting this.
    And how have the journalists over at Kotaku and Polygon and the like reacted to this? With interesting and critical analysis of their own practices and methods? No. Fact-checking all the sides of the debate before coming to a reasonable and logical conclusion? No – just pointing fingers at gamers and saying that they are to blame. With this barrage of accusations from journalists and their followers, it can be pretty difficult to find out what GamerGate is truly about.
    This article should help clear things up.
    10. It’s Not About Misogyny

    It’s not about gender at all, actually. People have flooded the #GamerGate tag on Tumblr and especially Twitter, strawmanning by claiming that GamerGate is merely a group of misogynists that are unhappy with women in video games. To anyone who’s actually examined the issue, this couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact, observations found no blatantly misogynistic tweets or Tumblr posts, what we did see were laments from gamers who are sick to death with being demonised by mainstream media sites.
    The term ‘misogynist’ is often tossed around indiscriminately in today’s social media as a tool to silence someone’s opinion. Why listen to someone if they’re a sexist, right? Well, the power of the word has ironically lead to its meaninglessness, so much to the point where “misogynist” can easily translate to “someone who disagrees with me”. Always be skeptical of these sudden accusations unless proved otherwise. 
    9. Everybody Receives Death Threats 
    It’s obvious that being part of the spotlight means you open yourself up to criticism and unfortunately, threats. This is unavoidable and every famous figure has to deal with it. Icons such as Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian have however used these to their advantage to play victim and get people on their side, rather than just ignoring them. Their followers, in turn often use this to perpetuate the narrative that only women (in this case women in videogames) receive this kind of harassment.
    Associate editor of Milo Yiannopoulos was recently sent death threats for his article about cronyism and corruption in video game journalism but instead of wearing the insults to look “brave” he simply tweeted:
    “Email death threat count now in double figures. Things I won’t be doing: calling the police, making a video, writing a blog post.”
    This exemplifies that fact that you will receive pointless threats if you are an icon regardless of gender and regardless of what you say.
    8. It’s Not Just Straight White Males Who Are In Favour
    The entire narrative of straight white males being responsible for everything bad in the world is tired, illogical, and downright bizarre. However, there’s a disturbing assumption (that’s all it is, not fact) that everyone rallying for #GamerGate is male, white and straight. Of course, this is untrue – in fact, the participants of #GamerGate are incredibly diverse. Exploring the tags will show that men and women of all ages and races are banding together to expose and fight crooked gaming journalism.
    Even the extremely controversial feminist, Christina Hoff Sommers posted a tweet in favour of #GamerGate which in turn sparked much encouragement and further tweeting from gamers all over the world. This is the most diverse gathering of gamers on social media there has been in a while
    7. Not All Gamers Send Death Threats And Harass People
    This much should be obvious to anyone who realises you can’t judge an entire demographic by the actions of a few, but people have used the recent Zoe Quinn controversy – where she received harassment for cheating on her boyfriend with five other guys (one a writer for Kotaku) – to demonise people who simply like playing video games. One person condemning gamers was the not-so-relevant Phil Fish, an indie developer who tweeted “Nuke all gamers”. Real mature.
    Why would someone whose core audience are gamers say something like that? We don’t know either. But this detachment from figures in the gaming industry to actual gamers is the core of the #GamerGate movement. Gamers everywhere feel like there needs to be more transparency and less demonising and name-calling
    6. Corruption In Video Game Journalism Is A Real Issue
    This is more than “neckbeards getting upset over nothing”, videogame journalists have major sway in what gets recognition and what doesn’t. However, many of the journalists have been shown to have political biases and connections with what they cover. Evidence of which is circulating Twitter, the /v/ board on 4chan (which have consistent threads about GamerGate, all of which hitting the post limit quickly), certain subreddits and Tumblr. An example is explained in this Youtube video:
    The damage control by the anti-gamergate crowd has ranged from amusing to cringe-inducing. This is because, especially on Twitter many of them have resorted to classic ad-hominem and bullying tactics to try to silence gamers. In the tag you’ll find the basic “nerd” or “man-baby”, but all this does is make it less possible to take their position seriously. We know it’s hard to have a constructive debate in less than 140 characters but we should at least try to be mature.
    Also, to people who like to say “Aren’t there bigger problems in the world to worry about?” – you might want to look up the fallacy of relative privation.


    • #47

      5. It’s About Separating The Journalist From The Blogger
      Gamers everywhere are beginning to question the journalistic integrity of major gaming news outlets such as Kotaku, Polygon and IGN. It’s become obvious that the interests of the average gamer and the gaming journalist have drifted apart. The logic behind the journalist/blogger idea is that someone who writes incompetently, or is not objective in their reporting, they are not a journalist; but a blogger. This is because at that point the article is mostly opinion and conjecture, not based on facts or evidence.
      One of the main aims of #GamerGate is to remind and inform the general gaming public that these journalist’s/blogger’s words are not law, and that it is wrong to let them paint the gaming community as this hateful, male-dominated, cesspool.
      4. Men Don’t Want To Keep Gaming A “Boy’s Club”
      The best way to demonstrate this is with evidence. The Fine Young Capitalists, who were unfortunately dragged into this mess, are an organisation that believes there should be more female game developers. Instead of complaining about the current situation, these people have taken the initiative and created a campaign to get female game designers noticed, which is very admirable.
      To do this however, required money they didn’t have, so an Indiegogo campaign was started. On August 22nd they released a pie chart showing the gender ratio between contributors, and 94.1% of them were male. This is strange behaviour from a group that supposedly wants to keep women out of gaming.
      Furthermore, a large portion of these donations were giving by the videogames board on 4chan, /v/ – which is usually dismissed as a extremely misogynist part of the internet. /v/ even created a very charming little character for the organisation cleverly named Vivian James (Video Games) which has assisted greatly in promoting the campaign, which now has over $40,000.
      3. The Competing Hashtag: #DescribeAGamerIn4Words Is A Smear Campaign

      The tag is used by individuals who feel the need to provide input on discussions that have nothing to do with them. If you’re not a gamer, why bother? And if you are, why make fun of yourself? Regardless, the tag is filled with insults directed towards people that simply like videogames.
      It’s like a 1990s playground all over again. Apparently name-calling isn’t as above adults as we thought.
      Of course, as with most of these types of campaigns, many gamers have taken it and turned it into something more positive and creative. A particular favourite being “Donates More Than You”, which is referencing the amount of money gamers contributed the Speed Demos Archive’s “Awesome Game Done Quick” charity livestreams. Many gaming sites and Twitter fanatics have tried to smear gamers as hateful, but all the evidence consistently points against them.
      2. It’s About Negating Censorship
      During this scandal’s infancy, there was mass censorship of anyone or any forum willing to discuss this issue. Mass deletions and shadowbanning were rampant on Reddit with evidence of this being posted via screencaps on many social media sites. Links can be found on Github under “GamerGateOP”.
      Another form of censorship is diversion. Many prominent figures in the gaming medium and journalists have stated that the attack of Zoe Quinn was a result of misogyny, while a more accurate and honest portrayal of the issue would be people expressing discontent with her personal relationships, and holding her accountable for nearly ruining The Fine Young Capitalists campaign. There will always be trolls, however – but this is nothing new.
      At this point it’s hard to tell whether these individuals are told to turn a blind eye or are genuinely ignorant of what is happening. Either situation is worrying.
      1. It’s About The Videogames

      Gamers want good, interesting, and fun games to play. Recently, there’s been a rise in more interactive novel-esque “games” (a more appropriate term would be ‘Walking Novel’). The problem comes from the aggression that’s faced by anyone who expresses a critical view on them.
      An recent example would be Gone Home, which is game where you walk around a house examining objects. A lot of critiques suspect that this game only gained the popularity it did was because it dealt with LGBT issues and, despite being able to complete it in 20 seconds, received unanimous praise among videogame journalists (with all disagreements being brushed off as “trolling”) – well more than a game of that length and blandness should deserve.
      But what’s this have to do with GamerGate? Well, the position of “If you like/don’t like this game you’re a sexist/racist/etc” has becoming alarmingly prominent in gaming. Gamers are tired of being talked down to by closet-bigot journalists because they dislike pretentious and boring games such as Gone Home and Depression Quest (not saying that games can’t tackle these issues, but there’s certainly more entertaining ways to go about it – these are video games after all, not books). Prominent feminist Christina Hoff Sommers explains succinctly via Twitter:
      “Most gamers seem to support equality feminism. What they reject is today’s male-bashing, propaganda drive, female chauvinism. #GamerGate”


      • #48
        It's nice that the webiverse has something to get steamed about, but I can't take attacks on 'gamers' seriously.

        In a quote that has vastly outlived her, Maggie Thatcher once said

        "there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families"

        Despite it's apparently inhumane resonance, I can't fault the truth of it. There is no society of 'gamers' to attack. Or defend.. We are just individual people, all completely unique, who happen to play games.

        And I don't think most people who happen to play games, like me, care what names people shout and in what direction they are shouted.

        And is a multi billion pound industry riddled with corruption? Really, You thought it wouldn't be? Seriously?

        I'm with the silent majority who don't give a toss - you can't join our society because there isn't one.


        • #49
          jackrabbit you want an increase in the character limit so you can just write war and peace in the box?


          • #50
            Hahaha Nice find that JR. I wrote words on my blog on this too, the it's not as well researched as that piece (which is in a cold abandoned section of the internet- I genuinely think we (gamers) should start a 'end games journalist' campaign..... :-)


            • #51
              Originally posted by Spatula View Post
              Hahaha Nice find that JR. I wrote words on my blog on this too, the it's not as well researched as that piece (which is in a cold abandoned section of the internet- I genuinely think we (gamers) should start a 'end games journalist' campaign..... :-)

              only way to end gaming journalism would be to make an incorruptible system and that is unlikely as people are greedy and can always be bought if you know what they want. (my price is a great big turnip in the country)


              • #52
                Sorry for the delay in replying lads, been away/really busy the past few days, and it takes me ages to write a response anyway!

                Originally posted by Spatula View Post
                well this is where we may have to agree to disagree. Nothing in her piece gave me the impression that this was a 'thought piece'. It reads as one long, vile attack.
                A games journalist, writing on a games website, saying "gamers are over" isn't enough to raise an eyebrow?

                I've been defending Alexander's article because I don't think it's intended to be a put down, on the contrary I thought it was rather upbeat, but I don't agree with the dismissal of the term 'gamer' either. And I actually quite like this piece as a rebuff, which perhaps we'll agree on!

                Originally posted by JackRabbit
                Thanks for proving my point that as soon as you criticise certain women, you get accused of being a mysogynist.
                Umm, where exactly have I done that? I have repeatedly said that the people with criticism are not the people I'm talking about.

                Originally posted by JackRabbit
                I just don't believe that they are getting this abuse BECAUSE they are women, ergo I don't think its "discrimination". Although there still is discrimination against women, as there is against men, but this is not it.
                I think this is the essence of our disagreement. You bring up several examples of men receiving abuse (Molyneux, Thompson, Galloway), which remarkably seems to suggest that you're saying that either all cases of abuse are sexist, or none of them are.
                Thompson got abuse because he hated computer games and the people who played them, and actively tried to get our hobby to all intents and purposes banned in US law. Molyneux I'm guessing because people didn't like his games (?). Galloway presumably because someone didn't like his politics. None worthy of actual targeted abuse I'm sure we can agree, but also no suggestion whatsoever that they were to do with sexism. In fact these examples so clearly have nothing to do with sexism that I have no idea why you mention them, or why I have to spend a paragraph clearing that up.

                Sarkeesian receives abuse because she has a problem with how women can be represented in computer games. It started from the very first moment the Kickstarter was announced, and has continued unabated ever since. The abuse (not criticism) has frequently centered on the fact she is a woman (just one example found extremely quickly on Google, (and one of the more lighthearted ones at that)). You don't see how there could possibly be a link to sexism there? The fact she's a woman doesn't enter into it at all?

                I think the crux of the matter, why the abuse that Sarkeesian receives is generally being labelled as sexist, whether it's a direct attack on her womanhood (something overtly sexist), or a death threat (something that isn't necessarily sexist) is that the issue itself, that she wants a better representation of women in computer games, is hardly contentious, except to those who for some reason don't want women to have a better representation in computer games. All or some of the particular examples she picks up on, or suggested changes, may well be legitimately criticised, disagreed with, etc. But it is not these specific examples that inspire abuse, rather, it is the very simple reason that she is a woman that wants a better representation of women in computer games.

                Of course, the fact that a large part of the abuse is of an overtly sexist bent rather backs up the theory.

                And Quinn received abuse (not criticism) because she was a cheat that needs to be 'slut shamed'? No overtones of prejudice coming through there either I don't suppose?


                To be honest, I've only just heard about this latest "gamergate" thing. This article seems quite biased though; surprisingly, this Forbes article on the matter has been the most balanced I've read.


                • Belimawr
                  Belimawr commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Burglar unless you using comments it just shows as posted on the page you post at due to how it posts the new post without reloading the page, but the delete notification is directly above this one as it will go to the end, it is just a strange display quirk due to it not totally reloading the page to make a post.

                • Burglar
                  Burglar commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @Beli okeydoke thanks for clearing that up.

              • #53
                Wow, I thought was a very good site to get some cracking deals on.


                • #54
                  What? You have other things to do besides waste your time on the internet!!! For shame.


                  Originally posted by Burglar"
                  "I get the feeling JR is using that as a reason to ignore discrimination towards women"
                  Intentioned or not, that sentence insinuates that I am a mysogynist. It insinuates that I think its OK to discriminate against women.
                  Its the sort of, intentioned or not, bigoted writing that has insidiously colonised all the popular gaming websites, and may be why so many gamers have finally allowed their anger to boil over.

                  At this point I am also going to asume that EVERYONE ( unless they state otherwise) thinks that online abuse is unacceptable.
                  No matter who the target is.

                  Originally posted by Burglar
                  Thompson got abuse because he hated computer games and the people who played them, and actively tried to get our hobby to all intents and purposes banned in US law. Molyneux I'm guessing because people didn't like his games (?). Galloway presumably because someone didn't like his politics. None worthy of actual targeted abuse I'm sure we can agree, but also no suggestion whatsoever that they were to do with sexism
                  So you accept that Thompson, Molyneux and Galloway received abuse because they said or did something that was unpopular.
                  Why then do you insist that Sarkesian, having said something unpopular, is getting abuse because she is a woman?
                  Lets do a little logic excercise.
                  Before Sarkesian widely painted gamers and games as rife with sexism was she getting huge amounts of abuse?
                  Before Sarkesian widely painted gamers and games as rife with sexism was she a woman?
                  So which act is the most likely cause of the abuse she is getting, that she is a woman? Or that she widely painted gamers and games as rife with sexism?
                  Do you think that if I made a video series making unsubstantiated claims, cherry picking data and failing to back up my conclusions that I would get abuse?
                  Would this be because I am a man?

                  Personally, I think Sarkesian can claim whatever she likes.
                  I'm one of those strange people with the radical idea that free speech extends to people who will say things you don't agree with.
                  The sorts of games she cherry picks her data from, are the games I don't even like (hell I only played Absolution to see what the fuss was all about. And because it was free on PSN).
                  In my experience gaming is the most open and welcoming entertainment media there is, with something for everyone. So when I'm told I'm a sexist, and my hobby has all the examples of egalitarianism glossed over, I kind of take exception to it.
                  When the majority of gaming journalists collude in that deception, It raises my hackles.
                  When criticism of the deception is painted as misogyny, I get angry.
                  Ten years ago, gaming journalist fell over each other to prove that violent games do not make violent gamers.
                  Now they are all bending over backwards to accept that sexist games will make gamers sexist.
                  Its like watching five porn films, and then claiming the film industry is obsessed with sex.

                  I do agree with you that whatever Sarkesian is on the receiving end of is being LABELED as sexism. Irrespective of whether it is or not.
                  As for Zoe Quinn, unless all the slut shaming comments have been deleted, I've seen no evidence for it (unless you think someone claiming cheating is wrong is slut shaming). Instead I've seen plenty of evidence that links her to nepotism and bullying, and how, again, the gaming industry is giving her a free pass.

                  Look at it this way. You are convinced that these people are getting abuse because they are women.
                  Are you so sure that you would be defending them if they were not?

                  Edit:- read your "impatial" blog

                  Originally posted by forbes
                  So it was strange when /v/ rallied behind TFYC, raising $17,000 for the game jam partly in order to spite Quinn and partly in order to mess with everyone’s preconceptions of the forum. TFYC even agreed to use a /v/ designed female mascot for the winning game, the now infamous Vivian James. An “every-girl” of sorts, and maybe not what you’d expect from 4chan:
                  So notorious sexist hate group 4Chan are donating money to a pro woman even BECAUSE they are misogynists.
                  Hardly impartial.

                  Originally posted by forbes
                  Update: I should note here that much of the online harassment we see against women is very troubling.
                  But online harassment against men doesn't even register as a concern.

                  Originally posted by forbes
                  Game writers claimed that all cries of corruption in media were merely thin veils to give cover to what was, essentially, a misogynistic movement. In less than two days more than ten such articles appeared around the internet, on the one hand preaching to the choir, and on the other leading many already-upset gamers to cry foul even louder. This many articles at once all saying the same thing seemed fishy to many, though I would argue it had nothing to do with coordination and everything to do with like minds feeding off of one another.

                  I wrote a piece on the notion as well, criticizing both sides of the controversy: Game journalists for condescending their audiences and gamers themselves for their lack of diligence in how they critique the press and their insistence on focusing on Social Justice Warriors.
                  But accusations of misandry are roundly ignored.

                  Originally posted by forbes

                  Just because you agree with something, or just because a piece gives more of “your side” of the argument, doesn’t make it unbiased or objective. It certainly doesn’t make it “journalism.”
                  This, I would hope, we can all agree on.
                  Last edited by JackRabbit; 07-09-14, 15:13.


                  • #55
                    I don't feel like such an outsider now. Thanks Burglar!


                    • #56
                      Well there is undeniably sexism in the game industry, case in point:


                      My forum post highlighting the issue

                      My main issue is using sex to sell the game. It is about diving and fish and stuff, but why on the artwork have a scantily clad woman? You could just as easily give the game theme with a man in a full wetsuit and snorkling gear. But by showing women in bikini's you are using this to lure impressionable teenagers to buy the game. I bet a male avatar is hardly used in the game. With all the row going on in the game community about sexism and stuff, this is highlighting the issue and playing up to stereotypes.


                      • #57
                        Really?In a game about diving, using a woman in a, to be honest quite modest, bikini is now evidence of sexism?
                        Have you considered that had they used a man, they then open themselves up to accusations of not being inclusive?
                        I'm quite surprised really, I would have thought better of you Cartoon Head.
                        You could have gone for this one....

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                        From Dragons crown. Remember the controversy over her? The unrealistically large breasts, the suggestive pose?
                        What about this from the same game
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                        Remember the uproar about how his impossibly muscled torso and arms might create feelings of innadequacy in young male gamers?
                        Oh thats right, that never happened.
                        And this

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                        Again, an impossibly toned physique that no-one raised the slightest concern about.
                        Obviously there are examples of sexism in the industry, as there is in all entertanment media, (I don't recall anyone calling out the romantic literature industry as being focused towards women though). Someone claiming otherwise would have to be naieve.
                        However wether it is endemic and rampant are where I have my issues.
                        I challenge you, Daniel (although he's keeping remarkably schtum here!) and Burglar, to go to Steam. Scroll through the "New releases", "top sellers" and "comming soon" games. Pull out all the ones that you think show rampant sexism. And then count out all the ones that you think don't.
                        See which pile has the most games in it.
                        On another forum someone made the remark that they couldn't play a videogame without walking through a strip club. I asked them exactly where the strip club was in Dark Souls II (at which point they became agressive).
                        Though, personally, I'm looking forward to building a strippers paradise in "Beyond Earth".


                        • #58
                          You missed all the complaints about snow white, cinderella, rapunzel and pretty much any Disney/princess story being sexist and depicting women as a damsel in distress that needs a man to rescue them from their terrible lives.


                          • #59
                            Dragons Crown? What's that then? No PC release? gutted, it actually looks quite good.


                            • #60
                              Yeh, PS3 only. Its a simple beatemup/RPG in the Golden Axe vein. Bit of a simple game, but the artwork is exemplary.